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are still dedicated to how the 9/11
conspiracies are wrong.
surrounding the events of September 11th, 2001. I have gotten good emails on the subject and
some not so good emails that made me think that the authors of said messages didn't actually
read the page. They just fired off a list of conspiracies that have already been addressed that
asked the same questions others have already asked.
Again, I am not a supporter of Bush, I am a liberal Democrat who believes that the Bush
administration and the federal Bureaucracy he manages dropped the ball and through
incompetence and negligence allowed the events of 9/11 to happen
Let's get to it. ALSO, NO RADIO SHOW TODAY; STUDIO IS GETTING REMODELED.
You said:
“Did Bush's aid (was it Andy Card?) that whispered in his ear
that a second plane had struck the WTC also inform the Secret Service agents that the US was
"under attack?"
Bush was struck with his first real tragedy and showed that he has no clue what to do in that
situation. He's a fool surrounded by fools.”
In regards to the first part, I would think that regardless of whether or not Andy Card told the
Secret Service, they would have had to have known through some other security channel that
the attack was under way. I would be surprised to learn that the only communications the
Secret Service was privy to regarding security would be confined to that locale. They had to
have known, and quicker than a seven minute time frame. It seems then that they are either
negligent by not removing the President, or they knew he wasn’t a target. Given their history,
and video record to confirm, I find it hard to believe that they would have left him there if he
was truly in danger (Reagan was gone in seconds,etc.).
In regards to the second part, he’s a fool surrounded by some very nefarious and intelligent
people. His administration was full of people from the PNAC who advocated attacking Iraq (and
then Iran or Syria coincidently), consolidating resources, and doing so with the impetus of a
New Pearl Harbor. How convenient.
Re: Payne Stewart (sp?). Regardless of who called, it was intercepted quickly, in about 20
minutes as I recall. Why didn’t that happen this time? Could be because NORAD was running
five different simulations that day, three of which involved hijacked aircraft flying into
buildings. This effectively moved a significant portion of our air defenses that day north and
west. It also clogged their radar screens with multiple images of possible targets, some
simulated from the exercises, and some actual. Might be a little confusing, given the tense
climate, etc. The initial interceptors were told to fly east, not north towards New York…oops.
My point is that I think there are too many coincidences for this to have been an accident. If
you follow the money, the dollars point to this administration and their friends / family.
Your thoughts?
Dennis
My thoughts...
Well, I think that the Secret Service may have realized that an elementary school and the
Pentagon, White House and World Trade Center are very different things. After Bush finished
My Pet Goat he was put on a military jet that wasn't the normal Air Force One right? He was
flown to New Orleans and then some bunker in Nebraska or something (if my memory serves
me correct).
"Reagan was gone is seconds"? When? When he was shot? Honestly, if I was a Secret
Service agent I wouldn't be counting on terrorists finding the right elementary school and
crashing into it. The Pentagon is easy to spot (it's the largest office building in the world), the
Twin Towers are easy to spot (they are the tallest buildings in New York), an elementary school
in the middle of a Florida suburb looks like every thing else. It was easy to see that the
terrorists were after symbols of our nation. An elementary school doesn't fall under that
pretext.
I remember talking with my mom on that day while we were transfixed by what was unfolding on
the television and she asked something to the effect of, "Who did this?" and I replied, "Muslim
terrorists."
"How do you know? How do you know it wasn't some militia men like Oklahoma City?"
"I know because Christians believe suicide is a sin. Fundamentalist Muslims consider
themselves martyrs when they commit suicide. There is no way some Christian Republicans
crashed those planes."
America has been concerned with Muslim extremists for thirty years. Remember Black
Sunday? That was written in 1975 and dealt with an attack from the air by militant Muslims on a
symbol of America. The idea is not new. The Project for a new American Century (PNAC) is a
creepy organization, I'll give you that, but we all knew that someday al Qaeda or someone
similar would succeed in striking on America soil. Clinton knew that more than anyone. He was
president when the World Trade Center got attacked the first time and when the millennium
bomber got nabbed in Port Angeles, WA. It's no stretch of Nostradamus proportions to assume
that something big, on the scale of Pearl Harbor, would happen someday. And that when it
happened to seize the opportunity, to capitalize on it.
On to Payne Stewart...
It took an hour and twenty minutes before a plane got within 2000 feet within Stewart's plane
once the training mission jets were told to intercept:
Excerpt:
"At 0933:38 EDT (6 minutes and 20 seconds after N47BA acknowledged the previous clearance),
the controller instructed N47BA to change radio frequencies and contact another Jacksonville
ARTCC controller. The controller received no response from N47BA. The controller called the
flight five more times over the next 4 1/2 minutes but received no response.
About 0952 CDT,7 a USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Air Force
Base (AFB), Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA. About 0954 CDT, at a range of 2,000
feet from the accident airplane and an altitude of about 46,400 feet, the test pilot made two
radio calls to N47BA but did not receive a response."
Notice the "CDT" and the "EDT". I think the confusion came from the fact that if you do not pay
attention to what time zone the report is referring to it looks like it took only twenty minutes to
reroute the F-16s.
As for the NORAD drills: Where did the claim that NORAD was doing hijacking drills on 9/11
come from? No one from NORAD has ever said that there were exercises like that taking
place. The thing got started because of a mention in Richard Clark's book, which is a good
book, but one in which he also claimed that the capture of the millennium bomber was an act of
a vigilant investigation and not just a lucky hunch by a boarder guard (which it was).
It's true that if you follow the money Bush and his buddies have been the ones who capitalized
off of all of this. Of course, when has Bush and his buddies not capitalized off of something i
this country whether it be good or bad?
also, if the fires were so horribly bad why did the fire fighters at the scene, inside the buildings
only ask for two 'small' crews?
Why hasn't the government released the flight recorder tapes from flight 93? Or the
surveillance tapes seized from the Sheraton and the Citgo stations in close proximity to the
Pentagon and why did they seize the tapes in the first place?
Are you an airline pilot? You should ask them about the maneuverer's the aircraft performed;
I've spoken to three airline pilots personally and all of them have said no way could a mere
student have accomplished
the attacks.
What about the several DOZENS of eyewitnesses who say they saw Flight 93 shot down? Or the
DOZENS of firefighters and other witnesses who heard explosions going off in BOTH towers?
What about WTC Seven? Why and how did it fall? Silverstein said it was 'pulled' (controlled
demolition) in an interview, so they destroyed it on purpose? Why and how did they know to
have it rigged for demolition in the first place?
What about the terrorist exercises that were 'coincidentally' going on at the same time of the
attacks? No mention of that from you I notice...
Dude, if you going to have a debate on 9/11 you can start with the above questions. On the
issue of steel and jet fuel: so you're telling me the fuel burns more than hot enough to melt the
engine? That makes a lot of sense....
This is just a few of the items that don't make sense, I can list a couple of hundred more, easy.
And do you believe we would have invaded Iraq if their major export was neon colored
condoms? Yeah, right.
michael
OK, I am going to break this one up because it deals with a wide variety of issues.
also, if the fires were so horribly bad why did the fire fighters at the scene, inside the buildings
only ask for two 'small' crews?
Of course, the 78th floor had isolated fires. Fire and heat go up. There was never a report
about firefighters making it higher than the 78th, right? Because that is when the building
started to collapse from the 78th floor. If there were explosives on the 78th, then why didn't
they blow up when the planes hit? And how did the pilot know to nail exactly the 78th because
that was where the explosives were and to nail that floor because the plan was to have the
building collapse starting from that floor?
Why hasn't the government released the flight recorder tapes from flight 93?
I know that the families heard the flight data recorder. You can listen to the air traffic control
tape here if you like.
Or the surveillance tapes seized from the Sheraton and the Citgo stations in close proximity to
the Pentagon and why did they seize the tapes in the first place?
Maybe they were seized because they are evidence? The parking lot stills certainly look like a
757 to me. And all the debris is from a 757 adn the witnesses say it was a passenger jet (unless
you are considering the witness accounts of anonymous people who claim otherwise).
Are you an airline pilot? You should ask them about the maneuverer's the aircraft performed;
I've spoken to three airline pilots personally and all of them have said no way could a mere
student have accomplished the attacks.
No, I am not an airline pilot but this doesn't look like a tricky maneuver:
What about the several DOZENS of eyewitnesses who say they saw Flight 93 shot down?
Are these the "DOZENS" of witnesses you are referring to? It is strange that everybody that say
the plane just up and crashed has a name and everybody that claims to hear "thumps", not see
actual missiles or military jets, but just heard "thumps" don't have a name or it a person giving
second hand reports.
What about WTC Seven? Why and how did it fall? Silverstein said it was 'pulled' (controlled
demolition) in an interview, so they destroyed it on purpose? Why and how did they know to
have it rigged for demolition in the first place?
I addressed this yesterday. Silverstein never said to pull the building, he said to pull the fire
crews. It seems like the Internet is just a big game of telephone sometimes. Building 7 was
heavily damage and collapsed because of structural damage and fire.
What about the terrorist exercises that were 'coincidentally' going on at the same time of the
attacks? No mention of that from you I notice...
Check out the above response to Dennis' email for this one. NORAD never even monitored
domestic airspace until after 9/11. No one from NORAD ever said that there were exercises
going on. More hearsay.
Dude, if you going to have a debate on 9/11 you can start with the above questions. On the
issue of steel and jet fuel: so you're telling me the fuel burns more than hot enough to melt the
engine? That makes a lot of sense....
Yes it does. It does it in your car too. That is why you have a radiator; to make sure your
engine doesn't actually melt.
This is just a few of the items that don't make sense, I can list a couple of hundred more, easy.
Then do it.
And do you believe we would have invaded Iraq if their major export was neon colored
condoms? Yeah, right.
No, we invaded Iraq because of oil. Then again, Iraq is another example of something this
administration can't get right even after years of planning. How could they screw up Iraq so
much and yet pull off 9/11 flawlessly? There have been tens of whistle blowers and cabinet
members that have resigned because of Iraq and none that did so because of 9/11? You are
telling me that guys like Richard Clark, and Paul O'Neal have no problem killing innocent
America civilians but draw the line when it comes to killing Iraqi civilians?
michael
Thanks for writing and keep those emails coming!
the steel in the building had collapsed and melted:
Oh, here's why:
"The building totalled 32 storeys, with 29 floors above ground and three below. A concrete core
and concrete frame supported the first 16 floors. Above that was a central support system of
concrete columns, supporting concrete floors with steel perimeter columns. An additional
feature was the presence of two 'technical floors' - concrete floors designed to give the
building more strength. One was just above the ground level and the other at the 17th floor."
And,
"The steel columns above the 17th floor suffered complete collapse, partially coming to rest on
the upper technical floor."
Oh, so the steel was what failed and it was the concrete that kept the building standing. That explains why
three steel buildings that didn't include concrete as structural elements in their designs failed as a result of
fire.
this picture sucks, giving us a blurry shot of what looks like something a dumpster
overturned...You're telling me this is what's left of a 767?
Que?
Yeah, I seriously didn't understand what you just asked. The FBI got there before the fire crews and
emptied truckloads of metal hunks that weigh thousands of pounds throughout the grounds and inside the
Pentagon? That is impressive.
No, that is not what is left of a 767. It is what is left of a 757.
cleaning up debri small enough to fit in paper bags. The only piece I saw close enough to way
"thousands of pounds" was this one:
Oh yeah, that thousands of pounds piece of blue tarp that can be carried by 6 guys using one hand each...
The FBI was there in minutes? Wow, that is impressive. Source? One that is not from a 9/11 conspiracy
site.
Some questions.
How is that people including firemen were walking around in the middle of these 1400 degree
infernos and reporting that "one or two lines" would be all that was necessary to put out the
fires ? Black fire = oxygen-starved fire. Not a hot fire at all.
Tell me how the entire chunk of the tower which was leaning sideways at one point turned to
dust ? One would think that the top 10 or 15 stories of a building might retain a recognizable
form on their way to the ground, but instead they turned to dust. Does your backyard crucible
have similar effects ? Are you at all troubled that no other steel-frame building in the history of
the world has behaved in a similar fashion ?
Re: the Pentagon. Airliners are designed to be lightweight. They simply will not penetrate
multiple rings of extremely sturdy concrete, leaving a circular exit hole. Sorry. Show me the
videos of a plane flying into
the Pentagon or why waste time guessing what might have made that hole. You also might
want to ask yourself how an amateur pilot with no flight experience managed to execute a
bizarre 270-degree turn and pinpoint landing at the exact spot where the building had been
reinforced. Sorry - can't be done. Makes no sense whatsoever. Simply a fairy tale.
My rating of your arguments - not so good. I don't claim to know who or what demolished the
twin towers etc., but the official story is a a load of crap.
Edward Strauss
Oakland, CA
support HoustonWade.com at the
same time. Thank you.
Some questions.
How is that people including firemen were walking around in the middle of these 1400 degree
infernos and reporting that "one or two lines" would be all that was necessary to put out the
fires ? Black fire = oxygen-starved fire. Not a hot fire at all.
This argument is false. Smoke from a fire is more indicative of what is being burned than how
much oxygen is in the fire.
Here's a couple links on it:
Here.
Excerpt:
In the 1990’s, furnishings are made from different combustible materials as compared to the
1940’s and the 1950’s. In the 1940’s and 1950’s, white smoke was given off when furnishings
burned. However, due to the various changes in the materials, today the smoke given off in
such a situation will normally be black. There are still quite a number of fire investigators who
will insist that white smoke occurs from the burning of normal combustibles and black smoke is
derived from the burning of accelerants. This case shows the unwillingness of fire
investigators to ‘move with the times’ and to keep an open mind.
Here.
Excerpt:
Large fires involving plastics produce copious quantities of black smoke..
Even the Vatican knows that in order to get different colored smoke you have to change what
you burn:
Here.
Excerpt:
Following every vote, the ballots and associated papers are burned, in line with the secrecy
inherent to the process. When the election fails to determine a pope, straw is added to the fire
to produce black smoke. This signals to the outside world that there is still no decision. When
the cardinals finally agree, the ballots are burned by themselves, producing clean white smoke,
and the clear message that a new pope has been selected.
This fire is not oxygen-starved:
and metals like copper are added to fireworks to get different colored smoke. When your car
burns oil it produces blue smoke. When a semi burns diesel you get black smoke...
The firefighters were obviously not walking around in 1400°C heat. Heat rises and that is just
what the fires did. They went up. Have you noticed how all the reports have the fire fighters
making it to the floors of impact but there are no reports about them making it above those
floors? IT is obvious that the fire moved to higher floors byt he time firefighters made it to the
78th floor. You can see that in video.
Tell me how the entire chunk of the tower which was leaning sideways at one point turned to
dust ? One would think that the top 10 or 15 stories of a building might retain a recognizable
form on their way to the ground, but instead they turned to dust.
OK, I think I get what you mean here. Let me ask you a question. If I dropped a Chevy Suburban
from 1000 feet up we watched it hit the ground is it going to be very recognizable? Those top
10 or 15 stories were probably doing about 200 to 250 MPH. There is no way something that
massive is going to be very recognizable at that velocity when it makes an almost perfect
inelastic collision with the ground.
Does your backyard crucible have similar effects ? Are you at all troubled that no other
steel-frame building in the history of the world has behaved in a similar fashion ?
Ah, but they have. See the above post about the damage to the steel in the Madrid fire that all
the conspiracy site love to point out how a steel building can't be damaged by fire. We forge
steel by making a fire for Christsake!
Re: the Pentagon. Airliners are designed to be lightweight. They simply will not penetrate
multiple rings of extremely sturdy concrete, leaving a circular exit hole. Sorry. Show me the
videos of a plane flying into the Pentagon or why waste time guessing what might have made
that hole.
This is where your argument falls apart. Is 260 tons lightweight? The Pentagon is extremely
well built and this is why most of it was standing immediately after the impact. Then again, the
plane only actually went through two walls, one that was reinforced and one that is composed
of two layers of brick.
on the ground floor. It is an open floor plan on the first floor with nothing more than office walls
separating rooms.
Here.
Excerpt: (this is a big report, you will have to search for this quote)
The perimeter exterior walls of Ring E are faced in limestone and backed with unreinforced brick
infilled in the concrete frame. Nearly all remaining exterior walls are 10 in. concrete. The first story
at AE Drive is brick infilled in the concrete frame, with no windows. The concrete walls have 5 by 7 ft
openings for windows and include columns built in as pilasters, corresponding to column locations
below, and girders reinforced within the wall.
Feel free to click on it.
traveling in excess of 400 MPH ever make it through all of that? Even the Koolaid guy could
make it through that wall!
execute a bizarre 270-degree turn and pinpoint landing at the exact spot where the building had
been reinforced. Sorry - can't be done. Makes no sense whatsoever. Simply a fairy tale.
If the pilot happened to not hit the section that was being rebuilt and reinforced would you be
writing today to claim that it was too much of a coincidence that he hit the only side of the
building that hadn't yet been remodeled and had it's structure upgraded?
Yeah, making a circle is really hard in a plane. I mean, only every flight I have ever been on the
pilot turned the wheel to one side on approach and we circled until we were lined up with the
runway. I think every time I have flown into Seattle we have done exactly that. If we approach
from the East we would fly over Puget Sound, circle northward until we over Edmonds turn again
and then follow the lights of downtown and the I-5 corridor to the runway at Sea-Tac. My brother
is a pilot, flew airliners, fire planes, cargo... Turning the wheel is not the hardest thing about
flying.
Why waste your time thinking something other than Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? Where did all
those people that were on Flight 77 go if it wasn't that jet that hit the Pentagon? Did Bush order
Barbra Olsen to go to a re-education camp for a few years or something?
My rating of your arguments - not so good. I don't claim to know who or what demolished the twin
towers etc., but the official story is a a load of crap.
Edward Strauss
Oakland, CA
You can probably guess how I rate your arguments. Thanks for writing though.
for me starting Tuesday. I will still post the 9/11 related stuff as it comes though but I won't be deicating
entire pages to it.
Also, pages may be infrequent for a few days after Tuesday because my sister is flying into town (her pilot
will make a 270 degree turn upon approach, no doubt) and I will taking her exploring around the Big Island.
It's Spring Break! Yippy!